S01E08 Rural France: 5 Inspiring Lessons from Jackie’s Journey

Jane: Welcome back to the next episode of Sunflowers Podcast. And I would just first of all come and I would like to thank you for all the support we've had so far. Um, and the likes and the shares and the subscriptions. If you would like to support us in our quest to bring you the ladies stories, there is a donation link now where you can buy us a sunflower and um, help us along that would be fantastic.

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Jane: So today we're going to interview Jackie. Now Jackie is a dear friend of mine. She's a photographer. She's a wonderful person. She's a mother. She's lots and lots of different things. So we're going to speak to Jackie today and I'm going to get her to introduce herself and we can take it from there. Hi Jackie.

Jackie: Hello. [laughter]

Jane: Who was Jackie before Jackie got to France?

Jackie: Um the old Jackie was um started off in graphic design. Um became a teacher, married, three children. Um juggling juggling teaching and home life. Um yeah, that was that was me.

Jane: That was you. So then you taught

Jackie: I taught art and art textiles.

Jane: Wow.

Jackie: And then it it sort of progressed to history, geography because of the weather system was in England. Yeah. So I taught for 10 years.

Jane: Wow.

Jackie: Um in in a um secondary school and then I did supply in primary school.

Jane: Wow. I couldn't have done any of those. I didn't know I could do any of those. That would not be for me at all. Absolutely at all. So that's that's Jackie out there.

Jackie: Yeah.

Jane: What was how did you come about the decision to come out to France?

Jackie: Okay. Um I was married before um the marriage didn't work. Um and in 2015 I met Dave. Um that was the August. The December Dave we went to we went to he took me to Barcelona and he he was you know we were sort of talking and he said, "Oh, I'd love to live abroad." But I wasn't I wasn't thinking about anything like that. I was just thinking, "Oh, that's really nice." Yeah. Um and next minute um we were um I when I was teaching my mentor Chris and um and Chris um it he'd moved out to France. So he was living in France and he he used to say to me, "Oh, Jackie, you must come and visit. You must come and visit." And I was thinking, I always say um you know, you say, "Oh, yes, I'll do that. I'll do that." And I never do it. And I thought, "Right, okay. I'm going to book the ticket." And I booked the ticket and then I remember my daughter was with me and then I thought I'm not gonna I'm gonna I'm not going and she said yes you are. She pressed the button so I had the ticket.

Jane: Wow.

Jackie: And I came out to visit and he I was watching them. I'm a people watcher.

Jane: Yeah. Yeah.

Jackie: So I was watching them build their house. They were building the house at the time and I I was just watching them and I saw he looked so well. He looked calm. He looked

Jane: because you knew him pretty you know I knew

Jackie: Yes. Because he was he was my mentor um while I was doing my teacher training and really really good friend.

Jane: Yeah.

Jackie: And I just watched them and I thought wow that's really nice. And the following year I said to Dave when I got back to him I said Dave I'd like you to meet Chris and Fuette. So he came out the following year and we took their dog for a walk and he wasn't saying anything. He's just walking and walking walking down this lane and he and I went, "You're all right." And he says, "I could live here." But again, I was thinking, "Oh, that's really nice." [laughter] Actually mean it. Yeah. And then he he said, "Oh, well, let's look at let's just see what the house is like, you know. You know, you know, he was he was more into it. I was like, "Oh, yeah. I'll just sort of go along with it." And then Fuette who was doing she was an estate agent. She found some houses and um he we sort of looking at it and the one we're in now is the the one that he liked and we thought well okay let's he he got a little bit obsessed because he was on Google search and he was get v you know like virtual walks and I was like yeah yeah that's nice that's very nice. Um and then he um we said okay well let's go out and see what it's like. Um, and it was, how can I explain? It was just so nice. Yeah. But it still for me it was just

Jane: Yes, it was. We were looking for a house for him. I didn't

Jackie: You weren't engaged in it.

Jane: No, totally.

Jackie: No, I wasn't. I don't know. I don't know why. I was just thinking, "Oh, this is nice for him." Cuz he really he it was he was free enough to have the money to buy a house. like I was still in the process of you know selling our house and getting my part of the the finance and um so I said to him I took photographs of the garden because the garden was like botanical gardens and I said oh you can't leave this and [laughter] I remember Fuette saying to Dave oh this will be a lovely summer home Dave said no no we're going to live here and I was like yeah right okay you know still not

Jane: Yeah. Feeling nothing sinking in.

Jackie: Not really. And then it was a case of well, oh gosh, we're going to move. We're actually moving. And I had to sort of then tell my family, tell my kids because I've got I've got three children. And they were in their 20ies at this point. But it was a decision to say, "Oh, we we're moving." Because it was a case of trying to doing something different.

Jane: Yeah.

Jackie: And Dave used Dave said, "We need an adventure. We need

Jane: Yeah.

Jackie: Because you if you're not a sort of person that does things like this, if you're used to just sort of being at home or being in one country, the only people I know that's actually sort of moved were my parents coming from Jamaica to England.

Jane: That's a big thing.

Jackie: That's massive, you know, and so I wasn't I was just sort of thinking, well, let's you know, this is this is going to be like a little adventure, but it still wasn't really real. It was like, "Yeah, yeah, yes, yes, yes." Until we landed, we came and we moved into the house and we went for a walk and then it was real. It was like, "Oh my goodness. Everything's big. Everything's vast." Because I'm from Birmingham, so it's city country.

Jane: No, I've visited I've got a sister who lives in in Dorset, so I used to visit her. This is

Jackie: It was like you're walking and you're thinking everything just sort of It's like um nothing was clear and then all of a sudden my vision was clear. It was like we're walking down there. Oh my gosh, everything is real. You know, we we it was late and I said, "I didn't know birds flew late." And he said, "No, that's a bat." And I went and I got we got back to I said, "I want to get in the house. Let's go back to the house." And I text my friend and I said, "I can't do this." This was day one. And she said, "What are you doing? This is only day one. You've got to see how it goes.

Jane: Can I take you back to when you told [clears throat] the family how how did that go? Cuz that that can be a a difficult

Jackie: I think at first it was a shock but then they got to know Dave. I think the idea then they knew it my the situation at home was not ideal for me. I lost my mom. My my siblings and I we weren't getting along. There was a lot of problems. And they knew that my I remember my my my middle daughter. She said, "Mom, you've you've you've always given. You've never been selfish. You need to be selfish." And I I thought I I didn't even think I was being selfish because it was Dave's dream, not my dream. So, I was I was sort of going along with it. Um, and they sort of gave me their blessing. But it's it's funny because they I think when I we left, I think that's for them. It was like mom's not here.

Jane: Yeah.

Jackie: you know, and I think then my my son it wasn't too bad. I don't know maybe I don't know for my son my son's very logical he he's he's you know he's sort of getting on with life but my girls I think for them it was difficult because I stayed at home for 8 years I didn't when I had the children I stayed at home for the eight years with the three cuz they're very close in age so I had three under five oh my goodness so I [laughter] that's that's that's another story but they I've you know they've seen I've seen them from when they were born you know I've always been there and suddenly I wasn't there and even when I was here they came out my f the first birthday I here in the January surprised that you were here crying yeah they they they came and visited and I kept thinking you're not really here because I couldn't believe they were came and we were all you know it's it it was I think for them it was hard maybe was it harder for them than me um at the beginning I think because I was in the swing of trying to establish myself here as they were like well mom's not here.

Jane: Yeah. So they were mourning the gap you'd left there.

Jackie: Yes. But they I think she's understood it but they still it was mom's not here.

Jane: Yeah. That's painful you know. So yeah. Gosh. Okay. [clears throat] So you're here day one and um you've just encountered the bats and you've text your friend to say I want to go home now. So that's that's a shock. How did you cuz you you do photography. Was that help? Did that help?

Jackie: Yeah. First I didn't do photography to start with. I started um because I taught art. My background is graphic design. So it's more I trained as a design technology teacher.

Jane: Okay.

Jackie: So it's design and make art is more subjective.

Jane: Yeah.

Jackie: Yeah, it's um it's a lot different teaching it. So when I came out, I thought, "Okay, Jack, let's what you going to do?" And I thought, "Right, okay. I'm going to draw."

Jane: Yeah.

Jackie: Because I'm going back to my first love. I've been drawing since I was five. So I trained, my training in drawing is very realistic. It's a case of

Jane: Yes. It's fantastic.

Jackie: You know, you you you do a composition and you draw what's in front of you. So what I was doing, I was finding pictures of like Bob Marley and David Bowie and I would draw them. I do these these portraits and I I sold some portraits. I sold portraits in England. And then I thought, okay, um I saved enough money. I thought, right, okay, such a beautiful country, it's easier probably to take a photograph than it is to paint because it's it's instant. So I bought a camera and I started to take photographs then. But I only did a small course of photography in college, right? But um in England I did do a little bit of photography at this I I did a lot here and and one of our one of my neighbors said, "Oh, I can I can get you an interview." I went, "So she got somebody came to the house and interviewed me in French."

Jane: Yes. She translates.

Jackie: So I'm I'm like I don't understand what's going on. [laughter]

Jane: Right. So, you wanted to do a course in photography and your lovely French neighbor organ.

Jackie: No, no. I I I was I had the camera and I was taking some photographs. You know, you've got the stalls like in Chataroo and you know, we would go and print off these pictures.

Jane: Okay.

Jackie: And um I would do little exhibition like in the post office in Osen. And then my neighbor got to know and she says, "Oh, I'll I'll get I know somebody who does interviews. I'll get them into interview and you'll be in the local newspaper. So I'm going okay wow that was a shock because she came to the house I had a picture that I'd framed and she interviewed me. So that was my first sort of interview and Helen who's passed away now she translated for me.

Jane: That's amazing. That is an amazing story. That's and I what I couldn't what I really appreciated how much the French they love art.

Jackie: Mhm.

Jane: They do. They absolutely I mean there's exhibitions on everywhere, isn't it?

Jackie: Yes. And it's from April. It's incredible the gallery. It's incredible. It really is. It's just sort of there.

Jane: So the photography because of nature, it was very it was easy to do that cuz it's so beautiful. And you did for us Sunflowers. You did the most stunning calendar last year, Sunflowers calendar. And it was just [laughter] And we turn the page every month with you.

Jackie: Yes, we did. And I look forward to that. And I think Well, Jackie's reminded me of that. It's It's nice and

Jane: Yeah. and it's a very uplifting calendar. I think there's um your photography works just incredible and we will leave links to everything um for everybody to see. Um okay, so we're slightly [laughter] we've gone over the bats. Yeah, the bats and [clears throat] language. We always talk about language. Oh my gosh. How do you find that?

Jackie: Right. I did do GCSE. Well, it was like Ole French. Ole French is not what they speak here now. It's that is just out the window. I think you have a romantic view of things like coming over to France. You do have this romantic view of France, but reality is going to hit you because you have to then live.

Jane: Yes. You've got to live and you've got to talk to people.

Jackie: Yes. We live in the Berishon area where the French is it's a it's it's like a um you've got the Parisian French and then you've got the ber French. English and French which is so different. So I I started to go to lessons. First of all, we went it was in Egarnon, lovely French teacher. Then we moved to a house. We used to go to a house and have lessons. And she used to say, "Oh, the berishon isn't proper French. It's the Parisian French." But I'm thinking, well, you've got when I go home, the person up the road speaks berishon French. you have to learn, you know, but [clears throat] I I think you most people will find it hard unless you have that bilingual thing.

Jane: Yeah. It's not easy. It's a challenge.

Jackie: A challenge as most people will say, you try you. And the thing is, you probably understand more than you speak.

Jane: Yes. Every day.

Jackie: And you could probably even write better than you speak. And it takes confidence as well to build up on it. Um, I'm still I don't think I will ever be fluent. I know it sounds very negative, but to be fluent, you've got to be speaking it. You need to be and [clears throat] we've talked about this as in Sunfires and and together. You need to be speaking to French people every [clears throat] day.

Jane: Yeah.

Jackie: Because it makes such a difference if you're sitting if I'm sitting with my neighbor who's extremely bearish on and if she catches me speaking Parisian French, I command. No. So she gets very yes animate about that but um yeah so you need to be around and it's about doing that but then it's also comforting sitting with people that speak your mother tongue you know there's no question you can relax in I I remember meeting a lady um this is this is about 3 years ago we were at um an event and she said oh she's she's she'd been there for 10 years and I said oh so how's your friend she said oh I don't speak I don't speak the language and I was I remember thinking oh god you you should be you should be and I found myself I'm almost in the same position. I want to though as she didn't want to.

Jane: No, she didn't want to.

Jackie: I want to I remember I went I threw myself into an advanced French class. I thought, right, if I'm going to do this, Jackie, you got to jump in the deep end. And I remember going and everybody's speaking French, everybody speaking French. I'd sit there and okay, listening listening because, you know, you pick things up. Then we started to do like read and I remember we did a session where we were reading around the table and I was following everything until it got to me. I could see what's written. Nothing was coming out my mouth. Brain freeze. Nothing.

Jane: Literally we do it all. We all do it, don't we?

Jackie: I I tried I was looking and I was Come on, Jack. Nothing. And I went home and I cried my eyes out. It knocks your confidence like it really did. It really did. Um I carried on with my French lessons and then um I started with another lady and it was onetoone.

Jane: Yeah.

Jackie: And it was brilliant. And she said, "Jackie, you need to not think it. You need to say it out loud."

Jane: Yeah.

Jackie: So I I try and do that, but I need to talk to people.

Jane: Yeah. 100%.

Jackie: So it's um it will be an ongoing thing.

Jane: Yes. It will it will grow. Yes.

Jackie: Or suddenly a word comes into your brain. I'm driving along and a word comes in and I think, "Oh, what does that word mean? I've obviously just heard it and then I can't remember it enough to to get home and translate it and I think well that word's now lost somewhere in the gray market.

Jane: It it'll pop up in the middle of the night. You'll sit up in the morning. What does that [laughter] mean? Yeah. It's quite

Jackie: Oh, great. So, so that part

Jane: Yeah. And like all of us, we're all working forward. Yeah.

Jackie: Um the other thing that's very dear to both of us is our faith. Um and and we have talked about this many times.

Jane: Yeah.

Jackie: And if you have a deep faith coming out here, it can be isolating.

Jane: Yeah.

Jackie: Um there's not, you know, I I I hadn't actually going to a church for different reasons um for a very long time, but my faith is very, you know, I've got a strong faith. Um you're the same trying to access and there is a church, we know there is a church here which is multiffaith and it's, you know, the Rayborg. Is it Rayborg? Gently. Um they do a great job, but it can be a challenge.

Jane: Yeah.

Jackie: if you're coming out because this is a predominantly Catholic area and they're ch you know they're they're very religious and and we respect that so much but if you're not of that denomination then it can be so how have you found that?

Jackie: Um I have um I've got a lot of my my Christian friends in in England and I keep in touch with them. There's five ladies that we have a Facebook group so we're backwards and forwards talking on there. And I mean like last year I was I they diagnosed cancer. I had cancer the colon and that hit me but I I I contacted them first. They were the first five people that I contacted. So they were you know they'd ring and we we'd sort of pray together. We you know we'd send texts and stuff like that. My faith will always be part of me. It's it's always there. Yes. It can be sort of isolating sometimes because, you know, there's not many people have a faith or, you know, people have no faith at all. But I know what I know and I I can't It's something that I will never let go of. No, never. No, no, let go of my my faith in God is there and it will always be there.

Jane: We've talked about this before. You We don't need to shout it from the rooftops and all. There's probably people going to watch this today and not realize, you know, well, probably me more than anybody. [laughter] They'll be going really, but you are who you are, you know what I mean? Um, but

Jackie: it's I I just know I I I just know and I've always had a strong faith. Um, with everything that I've gone through in in England coming here, I've held on to I've held on to my faith in God. And I know that, you know, I I read my I read the word and and I get my encouragement there and as I said, I've got my friends. Um so I'm not

Jane: Yes, it would be nice to fellowship with people.

Jackie: Yeah. But um I my faith is there and I I it's something I will never let go of. Never.

Jane: I would love to talk about your grandchildren now. I have never seen a woman who produces and all our grandchildren are beautiful but these are on another level. [laughter] Literally every time you post a picture we all like oh my goodness me.

Jackie: Yes. Um that's that's one thing as well when leaving because I'm I'm not there. They're they're all in in in England. Um, my son decided to get married [laughter] with Ebony, this beautiful girl, and they've got these beautiful kids. And it's, you know, I look at them and I and I, it's forced us to go over more.

Jane: Yeah.

Jackie: Because you can do a video call, but you're on a little phone.

Jane: Yeah.

Jackie: And they, you know, for them, I'm Nana on the phone.

Jane: Yeah.

Jackie: You know, so we we try and go over as often as we can. And they're coming over this year. All three of them. and Mia being born this year. It would be it'd be nice to see the only girl. You got the two boys and the girls. So, gorgeous.

Jane: Yeah, they are. They are absolutely [laughter] gorgeous. They are.

Jackie: Yeah. I'll just sit there and they are just so beautiful.

Jane: How do you feel now if How many years are you here now?

Jackie: Nine years.

Jane: Nine. So, communitywise, how do you integrate with community? How do you um

Jackie: communitywise? Um at the bit I would say when I first came we sort of threw ourselves in because I was doing exhibitions in the community. I was doing exhibitions all over the place. Um it sort of in a sense died down the the village that we're at they if there is an event I mean like I I do exhibitions in the um post office.

Jane: Okay.

Jackie: Um I got to know Alexandra who runs the post office. Um and she said every year what they do is they you um can exhibit um if you exhibit like I would exhibit this year. I won't exhibit next year but I might exhibit the the following year. So she asked me if I could exhibit this year. and I've just built a sort of relationship with her and um you know she's she's put my name up to other um post offices or I I've exhibited in other post offices. Um so it's

Jane: and she must appreciate your work or she was doing that. Gosh.

Jackie: Yes. You know um she sees what we all see.

Jane: Yeah. She's told you know she tells people and on Facebook as well and um because Oena they've got their newsletter on Facebook.

Jackie: Okay.

Jane: they're in there and they do the interviews as well. Um, that's been that's been really really helpful. Yeah, it's been very very helpful.

Jackie: But you have to go and and and reach out.

Jane: Yes.

Jackie: You can't just sit and nobody's going to come and knock at your door.

Jane: No, no, no. You got to

Jackie: Yes. You've got to be out there.

Jane: Yeah. You're creating a whole new life and the person that you've left at the ferry or at the airport.

Jackie: I think I've become My friends said when I moved over they said, "Co, you're brave." And I thought to myself, I've never looked at myself as brave because you you leave somewhere, you do something, and then I thought, gosh, that is a brave thing to do. I haven't said I'm brave. I'm saying it's a brave thing to do. Um I think especially like for for Dave as well because we're both very we're sociable person, probably me more than Dave. Um it's been it's it's been an eye openener to know that I've done something that a lot of people haven't done.

Jane: Yeah.

Jackie: I'm very grateful. I'm grateful for the people I've met out here. I'm I'm grateful to my friends who have kept in touch who come and visit. Um and it's the Jackie you I I've always believe every day you change. You're not the same person you were yesterday because experiences.

Jane: Yes. Julian, you've you've changed slightly. Sometimes people have changed dramatically, but you've changed every single day over the nine years.

Jackie: Yes, I've [laughter] Yes, I suppos I have changed. I think you'd have to ask Dave how much I've changed. [laughter] I feel um I just feel really grateful. I'm grateful. Um it's it's it's opened my eyes a lot. Um, and I've I've leared to appreciate things.

Jane: Yeah, definitely.

Jackie: You appreciate what you have. The big houses that the bigger house I would have had in England, having a smaller house, you you're more practical in what you have. That's it quicker than you.

Jane: Yeah.

Jackie: Yes. It's It's changed my perspective on things like that, you know, being able

Jane: Yes.

Jackie: I I said to my daughter the last week, I said, "I don't know how to dress up anymore because [laughter] I'm always in a t-shirt. Had to drag myself out of shorts and wear.

Jane: Yeah.

Jackie: And I I open the wardrobe. I think, well, how do I put things together? And she said, "Oh, mom, you still do. You know what to put on." I'm thinking, "Do I do I do I?" But I

Jane: So, what would you go back and say to the old Jackie?

Jackie: Well done. Because the old Jackie probably would never have on her own, she probably never would have done something like this. Um I started It's funny when you go through a difficult time, you either sink or swim. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I believe you have to swim. You have to you have to learn to swim or find people who can help you to swim.

Jane: Yeah. That can tow you along until you can start padding yourself.

Jackie: I I think that's the old Jackie has learned that yes, you can swim.

Jane: Yeah.

Jackie: and you can move forward and adapt to any situation.

Jane: Yes.

Jackie: Because there's nothing Everything's new here.

Jane: Yeah.

Jackie: And um and you can encourage other people as well.

Jane: Yes, you can. And that's the most important thing. And I think that's what we do at Sunflowers.

Jackie: I think that's the important thing about Sunflowers is you come to a safe space for a couple of hours and nothing controversial.

Jane: I'll not say what I normally say if people get too far. [laughter] I don't think that'll be allowed. Can can we edit that out? But it's basically leave it at the door and um but yeah and and you need safe spaces like that and positivity. It's got to be positive. You can't bring a negative thing in.

Jackie: You can bring it in and and we'll top it up for you and we'll make you [laughter] see it in a better way. It'll turn you know and if and just to encourage someone something you say something it might be something little you come into a group and one little thing you know you've really sort of brightened somebody's life.

Jane: Yeah. and not and not be big-headed about it because somebody brightened your life.

Jackie: Yeah. And you know that's that's that's how it is.

Jane: Jackie, thank you so much. It's been I know this was tough for you, but you've been [laughter] a superstar. Thank you so much. Take care.

Jackie: Thank you.